be much like going to work in new york after 9/11 her you can do it but it is not easy and for a premier city on this planet, it will be very rocky the next couple of days to put it mildly. >> good evening. at least t >> breaking news at this hour at least two peoplelled killed and dozens injured after two bombs exploded within a block of onek of another near the finish line at the 117th bostone yo marathon. there you see the first bomb exploding just over two hours after the first runner crossed the finish line thousand still making their way sources telling fox news that there now guarding a person of interest in the

unidentified hospital the person is said to be 20 years old suffering from severe burns watching that explosion and another 15 seconds later as you will see as they look up the street and the camera will turn from the first explosion and there you hear the sound of a second explosion then you'll see the smoke down the street a about one block from the first explosion. the fbi is confirmingplac another explosion took place at the jfk library about one hour from the finish lineiles 4 miles from where thesek explosions took place. no injuries are reported at the jfk location.

law enforcement is stillble unable to confirm if it is related to these two. explosions. and the investigative source confirming that the boston a police have found and removed another suspected device located at st. ignatius church steps away from boston college. the city of boston has recalled all off-duty police officers for support.e above commissioner is preparing the public for a lot of o injuries and death beyond the two of what we know of this hour. >> to 50:00 p.m. today there were simultaneous explosions that occurred all along the route of the boston marathon.sion these explosions occurred 50 yards apart and each

scene resulted in multiple casualty's. lou: we do not of course, lead to know that you as possible at this point* are 25 injured, two confirmed dead and the i department of justice is confirming the events are treated as a terrorist act although it is unclearnc whether domestic or international at this time p that the faa placing of a temporary flight restriction over the site at the request of boston and law-enforcement and a department justice released a statement that reads "ecte attorney-general eric holder has directed fullsour resources of the justice department to be deployed investiged. the boston police department is scheduled to bri the public at this second briefing and that is

scheduled at any moment here and we will be going to that to listen to what police commissioner ed davis, we're also told that governor patrick will be there as well but we will be going to that as soon as that press cference begins. joining me now for more on today's tragic events, former new york police department homicide detective bo dietl, and bill bailey. nice to have you with us. this is obviously a terrorist act that took some team before the authorities to be as careful as they should be, would say that it was precise that. what areour thoughts as you look at ths? we know at dozens of people injured here, at least two dead. >> you know what? first off when somethingike this, we know it's not a gas explosion, you know it's not an act of nature, it is positively some sort of an explosive device

that was set off. under these kind of perimeters, it's a flowing invessigation. flowing means it's on going. any of these facts that are coming out, they talk about the third site, was it a part or wasn't it? now there's a saudi national they're holding as a person of interest. that persocould have possibly -- >> i want to be more clear. a loof this is out there, bo, but fox business network has not confirmed the nationality and we want to be very careful about what -- >> that's the point i'm trying to bring out is a lot of things are coming out now. we can't put any kin of precedence or any confirmation to it. but as far as we're concerned, what's real is the fact that there was a bomb explosion there. under those circumstances and bill can tell you, i believe the joint terrorist task force takes over the lead on this investigation over even the boston police. am i correct?

>> that's correct. f.b.i., joint terrorism task force made up of the police and other state and federal officials have been given, at least it's the notification by the government, will beaking a lead on this investigation. >> we have just received word that fox has confirmed that 77 people have been injured. as of right now, we were reporting up to this moment, 25 and that number has risen to 73. we know that dozens of people were transported from the scene of the two explosions to at least three hospitals, perhaps more and we will update that, of course, throughout this hour. bill, in interrupting you, the joint task force is a cross force from local to federal jurisdiction and they organize themselves for better communication. what do you expect to beethe result tonight? i mean, this is moving -- >> sure, lou, and it is movg very quickly.

it's moving quickly to get the treatment to the people who were severely injured, the tragedy of it all. there's human life that have been lost and people who have been severely injured. at the same time, police move quickly to see if they can find out who the pson or perss are behind this because you want to make sure that there's no other larger plan afoot that would affect either the city or elsewhere throughout the u.s. so i believe it will move quickly. there's a lot of video from the media and also from private sector that may help in who put the device there. >> it's extraordinary because there is so much media available, whether it's on the smart phos or closed-circuit television. whatever the it may be. but this video, and i want to bring up, if we may, the boston globe video that shows the initial explosion which we showed you right at the outset of the broadcast, if we could have that, please.

the first explosion with power of that explosion tremendous as you saw a lot of flame around that explosion and the second you just heard there and that explosion defined more by ske and white plume. >> what is -- does that tell you anything, bill? >> well, you know, from -- i'm not a bomb expert but i can tell you that the bomb experts and bo has also discussed this, can tell by the plume of the smoke, the color of the smoke as to what might be behind those explosive devices. obviously the residue that's left behind, the shrapnel as well as if it is true that they found a device which was unexploded, at will be a treasure trove for investigators to get behind who may have put the devices together. >> there are reports, we are --

fox is reporting that one device has been found that was exploded. there is some -- well, we have not yet confirmed that the city of boston had all of its cell phone service shut down to avoid the possibility that these were triggered by cell phones. bo, to look at what is happening there now, and the idea that cell phone service might -- the cell phone companies, by the way, cell phone services are denying that. would that be standard procedure? >> it could also be, you know, if you have one cell and you have a vast amount of cell phone being used out of one cell, you certainly can stop the usage from that with the total amount of usage. now, again, going back to bill's point is these frames, every frame will be taken out of these explions. one good part about so many cameras that we have to work with, the explosive expert will determine what type of

explosive. i'm not an expert. bill is not, either. but we have to look at all of the evidence we've got. you have to weigh that. a lot of people, fox not reporting it but a lot of people say there was no kind of chatter as far as with al qaeda terrorists like they had chatter before a lot of the other explosions in london and also in spain. there was chatter going on like something was going to happen. they said as far as i heard that there was not much of that and i don't know if you know about that, bill. >> and haven't heard any of that. i would suspect that the joint terrorism task force that is the multi agency getting intelligence from even international sources, if there was something, they would have been probably putting people under watch if they thought that peopleould be involved in some way. >> to bo's point here, if we were getting chatter, i would expect our intelligence agencies, we would be referring to the c.i.a., state department intelligence, my feeling would be that, you know, thi many years after september 11, there

would have been a tremendous response. >> we've had it in new york city. whenever there was chatter or anything like that, all of a sudden, you would see security ramped up. as we sit here tonight in new york city, a lot of landmark buildings have been flooded with security just in case it is more than it is. if you remember 9/11, we had four planes that were -- >> we're watching at the capital, the lowering of the fl to half mast to honor the victims of today's bombings and appropriately so. and those flags will be half staff across the country by tomorrow morning. a person of interest, now we're told as i reported at the outset in a hospital in boston, unidentified. as to which hospital, nationality or any other personal identification, there have been reports, as you suggested, bo, but how important is it to have someone who may be

related to this? >> it could be a person that was just standing there watching the race also and then the explosion. this person is severely burned, 20 years old. he's supposedly cooperating completely. he could have nothing. that's what i'm saying about a flowing investigation. until we can determine exactly what he was doing there, what he's all about, i think it's kind of not responsible to say that he was actively involved with this. person of interest, he was there. he was burned. maybe, maybe not. >> you know, interesting law enforcement has taken different stance on calling people suspects, grabbing a whoem bunch of people and calling them suspects. eric rudolph, they thought it may have been someone else and they called the person a suspect that then hurts that person's character severely. a person of interest. >> bo is sitting here talking

about his nationality at the outset. i want to -- if i may, i would like to turn to because we're getting into trouble on time. we're waiting on this press conference but o person who was there as the explosion reached into his pocket and said that he found pellets as a result of the explosion. he didn't say if they were pell elts from a shotgun shell, from a pellet gun. didn't identify it beyond that. >> these devices, sometimes these crude devices, they develop devices and what they do is put ball bearings in there, put all kinds of projectiles so it causes the most it can to maim and hurt people. that could be consistent with that. and just again, real fair, i happen to know someone who was in boston who is a businessman who is saudi arabian.

i want to clear that. that person would have just been there and i want to clear that up. >> one closing point. you mentioned about being able to shut off the cell service. that ability to be able to do it locally, quickly is a local arrangement they have with the cell providers. on aational basis, the president has the authority in a time of nationalmergency to suspend that service if they think perhaps there's a reason for that, they need to clear the air waves. there waa discussion point last year so we have looked at this or at least the government has looked at it. i'm sure local authoties have looked at it to see if they need to do something like that. we don't know if that's the case but if they wanted to turn it off for fear there were remote controlled by cell phone signal, they should have the ability to do that and do it quickly. >> it's been extraordinary as we've been reporting from the outset othis tragedy, the way in which boston's first responders took charge and started moving the victims out

to hospitals. i mean, these are the hospitals, some of the elite hospitals of the nation. the care tt they're receiving is amazing but to see that -- those first responders moving these victims and ambulances and transporting them is heartening. >> and the reports, lou, that first came out about limbs being blown off, these are severely -- some of thes people are severely injured and the death toll, i'm sorry to say, possibly could go up. we hope not. weope they'll all survive but there were severe injuries and our prayers go out to them and their families and hope everybody survivors. >> without question. thank you very much. we appreciate it. we're going to have much more on the marathon, boston marathon terrorist attack, breaking updates from throughout the broadcast tonight. stay with us. we're coming right back with the very latest.

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lou: we're following breaking news tonight. two bombs exploded in a packed street near the finish line of the boston marathon this afternoon. officials say at least two people were killed. the associated press is reporting more than 100 others were injured inhe explosions. no word on a motive or who might have attacked but a white house official telling fox news that the incident is being treated as a terrorist act. wall street already having a bad day before the tragedy in boston. news report of what had occurred in boston, of course, prompting a selloff in stocks just as toward the end of the session it appeared ty were going to recover. but in the commodity market,he explosion just added a great burden to what was already meltdown in commodities.

weaker than expected economic growth in china reigniting commodities. gold tumbled to the lowest price since 2011. this, the second worst dollar loss in 33 years for oil. crude dropped $2.50 settling just under $89 a barrel. all commodities moving lower in electronic trading this evening. massive selloff in the commodity market obvious joined in the equities market. the dow posting the worst point and percentage losses since early november of last year. the dow losing 266 points, the s&p 500 down 36. its worst point loss since mid november of 2011. the nasdaq fell 78 points, the worst point loss since june of last year. big board volume, the second highest of this year, 4.6

billion shares and the three hardest hit sectors ofhe s&p 500 energy materials industrials, the big losers in each sectors saved by the energy, pioneer national resources, gold and copper. iff natural resources. in the bond market, a flight to safety sparked by news of the boston marathon bombing, the yield on the treasury's 10-year opping to -- down two bases points. joining me to discuss the selloff, chairman of the lairman institute. chief economist moody's capital markets, president of securities, thank you for joining us on this difficult day for everyone and i kno that all of us have the victims of this tragedy in our hearts and prayers. i want to begin, ted, with you if i may. these markets are very sensitive

to all sorts of geo political events. this is one of the worst that we could experience. what are your thoughts about what is in store in the days, weeks ahead as a result? >> i think still the underlying trend for equities is positive and the selloff today,though, triggered by the weakness in the commodity markets that started at the end of last week, i think if you go back to 2008 and 2009, lou, when we had -- we would look for relief rallies, we would get week after week after week of down markets. we have the flip side of it. i think we have to -- with market that's been on a positive trajectory for four months now. lou: we'll come back. we'll be right back with lou and john and ted. stay with us. we're coming ght back.

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lou: we're back with lou, john and ted. gentlemen, let me -- while you're looking at the futures right now, you can see a little bit of a bounce which is in order after the dramatic selloff of the day. and that may be reassure to go -- reassuring to some and unsettling to others. john, what are your expectations, particularly in the equities market and the bond market? >> i think there's no overlooking the important fact, the major driver behind this latest rally in equities has been the expectation of low interest rates. in this latest dive by commodity prices reinforces a low level of

inflatioexpectations that ought to lengthen the day by extraordinarily low interest rates. all we need to do is simply grow profits and if that's the case, then we could see further climbs by share prices. i would be worried, on the other hand, if profitability began to contract. lou: do you expect as a result of today's bombing that there will be any holdover, hangov as a result? >> you know, off hand, i don't think -- lou: i know we're all guessing here. >> the jump in consumer fear, i think that's going to be short lived and fundamentalists will, you know, overtake what drives consumer spending fairly quickly. lou: we're watching an unprecedented, at least in recent times, selloff in gold, a meltdown by any definition. how concerned are you about the level of goland what do you expect to happen? >> gold is a commodity. it is not monetary standard and

hasn't been one since 1971, perhaps even before that. so that it has to be viewed as a mmodity and it fluctuates like a commodity. right now the price of gold is approximately equal to the ere all in cost of production of mining gold worldwide. it's not uncustomary to see in down moves, big down moves to see the price of gold fall below the average cost of production. but gold is not the issue today. the big news, i think, over the weekend which may have been missed by some was the president of the boston fed who has been the most aggressive advocate, gave a speech where he said we might want to end sooner than i thought and before the end of the year. and wall street being so deep into the carry trade, buying anything that, you know, isn't nailedown was very much aware of that.

lou: with all due respect the boston fed had and others, right now i can't think of anything more unlikely than the quantitative easing here. as we watch gold drop, i mean, this is really -- you could argue it's a deflation signal of e strongest order. right, ted? >> absolutely. i mean, that could be the message that it is signalling worldwide deflation and of course, the euro zone is struggling. the u.s. economy seems to take two steps forward, one step back and i would also have to agree with your comments about the fed. lou, i also read that but i think that the fed chairman has made it perfectly clear that th were going to stay the course for the indefinite future. >> what will ultimately drive prices will be the growth of wages and salaries and the like and according to the march -- lou: we would like to have some

of that. >> we would like to see some growth there. in march the conference board's survey showed that the percent of csumers expecting a lower income six months from now, once again exceeded the percent expecting income growth. we never saw this type of imbalance in previous recoveries and that's a bit unsettling. lou: i lied. you get the last word, lou. we started out with the gold, deflation. you get the last word. >> we're not far apart but i would say that the revenues of corporate america have been slowing. as the top line continues to slow, the ability to maintain profitability is certainly doubtful and i think any wisp of deflation or whiff of deflation that gets in the market, i agree with you about the prospect but any doubts that come in that are going to be felt by the carry trade. lou: whave to wrap it up.

thank you. we'll have much more on the boston terrorist attacks, the bombings at the boston marathon coming right up next. lou: ed and michael with their perspective next. patriot day turns deadly at the finish line of the boston marathon. we'll have the latest update for you next. and the gruesome murder trial of a pennsylvania abortion doctor ters its fifth week. dobbs law next. the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for the big family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this guy can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, you never ms the fun. beard growing conte and go!

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lou: boston police investigating, along with all the federal authorities, state and local authorities there, the tragic bombings at the boston marathon. boston police right now are saying no suspect has been taken into custody in connection with

the explosions near the finish line of the boston marathon. boston police commissioner, edward davis, says that the fire at the john f. kennedy library, which is about four miles away, more than an hour after the two explosions does not appear -- i repeat at this hour, does not appear to be related to those deadly explosions. indeed, the commissioner says the fire may have been caused by an insidary device but they're not related and the boston globe is reporting one of the deaths is an 8-year-old boy. the globe also reporting more than 120 others were injured in those explosions now. that is the latest count of the injured. 120 or more, two persons killed in the explosions.

police say it's far too early to get into any specifics about the nature of the explosive devices that were used whether shrapnel was involved or the characteristic of any of the bombs. joining us is congressman, member of the house armed services committee and a number of others and we appreciate you being with us, congressman. i want to talk to you obviously about what is happening around the world and first and foremost, focus on what has occurred today in boston. your thoughts? >> lou, it's just another reminder unfortunately we do live in a dangerous world. here in america, we have crazy people and overseas we've got crazy people. lou: and nowhere are there, it ems, any crazier people than in north korea. that leader continues with the

bellicos threatening rhetoric. the united states represented by secretary of state kerry making what some see as an extraordinary propher to china, to talk about an engagement directly with north korea. your reaction, your thoughts as to the secretary's, if you will, offers? >> and lou, some of us are banded together to send a letter to the president saying we should not go down this road. this is a very troubling development. it would send the wrong signal to our allies like japan and south korea that their interests are secondary and that should not be the case. and we shouldn't be intimidated by the chinese. you know, when barack obama first came into office, we gave away a lot of missile defense scheduled to go into europe

because we wanted to please the russians. we wanted to hit the reset button and look where that's gotten it. it's gotten us nothing except we've delayed protections for ourselves and our allies. we have to d what's best for our defense and our allies' defense and do what ronald reagan said. we should have peace through strength, not peace through weakness. peace through strength. lou: the north keans have at least two missiles for launch, estimated to be, by all counts, and of course, you're far better briefed on this than the people but by all accounts a ran of at least 2600 miles. how concerned are you that they will, indeed, be launched and what should be the u.s. response? >> well, fortunately, we do have some good theater missile defenses in place today, missile destroyers that we already had and we beefed that up. japanese had some with our help and they're deploying that and

we have some inter continental ballistic missile interceptors, lou, in both california and alaska so i feel good about what we are doing today. the long term i'm more concerned about because the president is advocating slashing our missile defense budget by half a billion dollars and i think that that's the wrong direction to go in, given the threats that are out there. but i feel good what we have deployed as of today. lou: all right. congressman, we appreciate you being with us and we look forward to talking to you again soon. thank you so much. >> talk to you soon. lou: we'll have the very latest from boston on the marathon bombings. we'll have the latest -- well, casualty count right after the break. stay with us. we're coming right back. it's monday. a brand new start. your chance to rise and shine. with centurylink as your trusted technology partner,

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lou: joining us now, randy, a

criminal defense attorn, former prosecutor. good to have you here. >> such an honor. lo orange county, california criminal defense attorney. nice to have you with us. thank you. lou: that's start with you. what we're watching unfold here is an investigation in boston into these tragic bombings. people were talking abo this as an investigation person of interest, they're being extraordinarily careful. your thoughts about the necessity to say a person of interest. is it necessary to describe them even as that? >> it's not. this seems to be a creature of the internet and it's a creature of lawyers where we're so afraid if we say the wrong thing about someone, someone is going to sue someone else. let's call it what it is. how do we all feel right now? unsure, scared. i think the dictionary definition of that is terrorism, whether it's homegrown or not.

we're all flipping out right now and we're scared and we're nervous and an 8-year-old, what does an 8-year-old have to do with t state of affairs whether here or anywhere else? let's call it what it is and go from there. lou: your thoughts? >> i think oftentimes, law enforcement will use that term of art as a suspect or person of interest as an investigatory tool. people that are suspects may be nervous, they may feel they're watched, they may make mistakes so i'm okay of calling it a person of interest or a suspect in this case. it's a horrific event that took place this afternoon and i think law enforcement should do whatever it takes to find out who did this and bring them to justice. lou: if 's a matter of law enforcement investigation or whether it be national security investigators, there is such a -- there is such a broad expanse of investigative agencies and we were talking earlier, bill and bo were with us talking about the joint task force.

this seems like such an immense job to coordinate, even just a few agencies sue what has happened here and why, let alone joint task force that reach across huge juridsdictions. is the joint task force the effective way, t mt effective way to get to deciding who cused this and why? >> you put all your assets, all your resources. we're looking for a needle in a haystack but we have the best talent, the best assets and if anyone is going to find out what happened, it's going to be the law enforcement of the united states of america because we will find out who does this and we will bring them to justice which is why it's not important to call them a person of interest. it doesn't matter. you're a defendant or you're not. period,nd of story. lou: i want to turn to the gosnell abortion trial. so much of the media has not

covered it. he's accused of some of the most horrific acts. what is your thought about first, why it's not getting more coverage and who are the prospects of a success of conviction? >> in terms ofcoverage, i don't know and we've spent more time on a woman who already admitted guilt in this case. we have the most outrageous case i've se. it is the most egregious case i've ever seen so i'm not sure why they don't cover it. however, in terms o prosecution, he's being charged with seven counts of murder, one being his patient and seven being -- or six being the fetus, the viable fetuses that were recovered in the freezer. now, with the medical examiner coming forward today and stating that he's not sure that those fetus were viable, that puts -- takes the wind out of sails of the prosecution's case. if it's not viable, then you

don't have a murder. we'll have to see what happens in the next couple of days. lou: very quickly, we're out of timee your thoughts on ? >> when you take abortion, we're trying to put a square peg into a round hole. this is not a murder case. when we bring the person to justice who did this at the boston marathon, that's a murder. this doctor was fulfilling a need. we support people in the communities that have no other way to get accs to the termination of a pregnancy. it may be wrong but it's not murder. lou: thank you very much. appreciate you both being here. up next we'll have an update on the boston marathon bombings here next. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in with premium service like one of the best on-time delivery recds and a low claims ratio, we do whatever it takes to make your business our business.

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lou: joining us now, former reagan political director, fox

news political analyst, pulitzer prize winning columnist. good to have you with us tonight even under these circumstances, especially under these circumstances. your thoughts about what has transpired? it's obviously a terrorist attack in boston. the rest we don't know. michael? >> well, lou, like everybody else, you watch it, sort of trans fixed by it when you wonder what else there is, what we don't ow and the thing that jumped out at me and reminders of 9/11 again, when ordinary citizens, the runners in the marathon and others run away, you see the first responders running to it. it's an extraordinary sight to see this is what people do and i think god bless them that this country has such people that respond that w when the rest of us are looking to go the other way.

>> terrible tragedy of this is we've talked about these kinds of things forever. we've watched it in israel, watched it in london, watched it in other countries and we kept saying, it could happen here. sporting event, wherever there's a crowd and we're shocked again by it. all the due diligence we have, all the police presence, all the cameras, these terrorists, whether it's domestic or foreign, we doen know yet, they can get the people and they can cause what they term as terrorism and we just have to continue to pursue it and more due diligence and more giving up freedoms. lou: i want to say, too, michael, and you're exactly right, there are also folks, the fellow taking off his t-shirt to put over a wound, others taking their belt, you know, a limb and put a tourniquet on a bleeding leg. you know, that to me is also a very inspiring. we have lots of good folks.

it's a shame we often don't acknowledge it until tragedies like these. we're gog to be right back with michael goodwin and ed rollins. we'll find out why the secretary of state and the united states government seemingly want to negotiate missile defense and a relationship with north korea during a moment of crisis. is it the right time? the right thing? we'll get their views here next. [ male announcer ] in your lifetime, you will lose 3 sets of keys 4 cell phones 7 socks and 6 weeks of sleep but one thing you don't want to lose is any more teeth. if you wear a partial, you are almost twice as likely to lose your supporting teeth. new poligrip and polident for partials 'seal and protect' helps minimize stress, which may damage supporting teeth, by stabilizing your partial. and 'clean and protect' kills odor-causing bacteria. care for your partial. help protect your natural teeth.

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[ crows ] e you still sleeping? just wanted to check andake sure that we were on schedule. the first technology of its kind... mom and dad, i have great news. is now providing answers families need. siemens. answers. lou: we are back. then, the secretary of state basically saying he will negotiate and the obama administration will negotiate on missile defense at a time trying to build the of quid pro quo that has to do with our national security. >> how can you negotiate?

sponsors of terrorist, a built nuclear weapons when we told them they couldn't and disrupted the entire region and threatened to nukes' their neighbors and us and we say okay let's see what we can do to make it well? it is absurd. >> today's a perfect storm for those who hate america. you have some time of terrorism here at home and iran and north korea and we cannot seem to get anywhere in part because we are willing to talk to them. they want to destroy their neighbors that we're offering to negotiate. but appeasement is not as a momentary event. is a process. each time that north korea or iran makes these outrageous threats and what we reward them with further negotiations, we are basically betting against

ourselves. lou: then the secretary of state says that foreign students that don't want to come to the united states because of the secretary of state in japan says they are afraid of american guns. is there room for outrage? >> it is such a misstatement there are tens of thousands of foreign students desperate to get into americaa. lou: our universities would be ghost towns of not for the international student. >> to politicize to make guns the issue everywhere is the upsurge and he should be conducting foreign affairs, obviously he knows a lot about it but when you make a stupid -- stupid statement like that it diminishes him and his first 30 days of the job and i don't see much accomplishment.

>> if you want to be a senator about gun-control come back to be a senator but secretary of state is beneath your pay grade to argue about gun-control abroad. lou: i thought he had a good start on his phil flynn that over the last two days started to set the dial back i am not sure what to make of it. >> unfortunately too many of the modern secretary of state tried to make the big deal of the henry kissinger theory no disrespect but at the end of the day it is a long process and you have to represent the united ates abroad so let's get our troops home. lou: for the record i will take kissinger every time. that is it for us.